- In ways of seeing John Berger describes the nakedness and the nude for a women in the paintings. john Berger said ” being naked is seeing without clothes” and nude is how the women were seen and judge of being naked by other people. This is significant because it shows the inequality how women were being used.
- John Berger states that western works has depicted and defined by men and women. The example is in the garden Adam and eve and how they realize they are naked and the blame on god towards the woman.
- John Berger explains how the mirror is significant and how its depicting the women in the painting. The mirror is significant because the women liked to look at themselves while they are naked.
Category Archives: Discussion questions #3
Discussion Questions #3
John Berger’s Way of Seeing Episode 2
Question 1: Berger mentions that, “Naked is to be oneself and to be nude is to be seen naked by others and yet not recognized for oneself”. When he says this he means that through western art, women who are nude are objectified by an audience and is seen as a beacon of pleasure to her male viewers. Versus being naked, which to Berger means to be without clothing, but the woman can be more herself without spectators. These differences are significant because the woman’s facial expression is changed to lure in viewers as nude forms. Paintings such as the Jewel Case painting by Guillaume Seignac is the perfect example, because the woman’s face is contorted in a way of saying look at me or come here. (Image insert below)
Question 2: Western works of Art depict and defined different roles for men and women by showcasing the inequality of power. Men are seen as superior and dominate, treating the opposite sex as if they were only there to satisfy their needs. The significance of this is to display the differences in roles for example, John Berger uses Adam and Eve to show how different men and women are treated and what each role they play entails. I do believe these depictions influences are society today because though individuals voice against the objection of women, many media outlets still do this. We are used as outlets to sell your cars, to promote your meals, lingerie, and even weight loss solutions. Some men still feel entitled to our bodies based on what is seen from outer sources. Some still feel we belong in a kitchen instead of being CEO of a multi million dollar corporation.
Question 3: Berger explains that the significance of the mirror in paintings depicting women as a symbol to show the women who they are and what people think they look like. In the episode he mentions how a women’s gaze is almost always the same in paintings as if to respond with a beckoning call to serve the man looking at her. Often during this time, European painters depicted a woman naked to reflect their sexual view of them and attract more with the same perception. The difference though between now and then is that women aren’t forced into being somebody object of sexual desire.
Ways of Seeing Discussion Episode 2
Reading/Viewing Questions
John Berger’s Ways of Seeing Episode 2
After you watch episode 2 of Ways of Seeing (or even while you are watching it), provide short answers to the questions below.
- One of the main premises in this episode is Berger’s distinction between nakedness and the nude female form as it is traditionally represented in Western art. What are the differences between these things and why are these differences significant? Do they apply to images you have encountered in your experience?
John Berger in episode two of Ways of Seeing, he discusses the difference between nude and nakedness for a woman. He explains that nakedness is just the human female body without clothes. An appropriate example would be a woman in the shower by herself is naked. Nude is when there is an audience there to judge and sexualize the body of a female. This is significant in society as it is a reflection of inequality of women and how women are seen and viewed in western culture. I think this applies equally today as it did during the renaissance, or during the 70’s when this video was produced. I think we have substituted photography for the paintings. As he mentioned in his previous episode the camera, and as time has progressed technology has somewhat changed the perspective of the nude. I think the internet and social media has created a new version of the nude, that encompasses women who are not even naked. They may have a bikini or just a revealing outfit that is meant to entice the male sexuality, but the result is the same. The images have stripped that person of who they are, and replaced their identity with an image “that is first and foremost a sight to be looked at” as Berger states in his video.
- According to Berger, how have Western works of art depicted and defined different roles for men and women? According to Berger, what is the significance of this? Do these depictions influence the ways we think of the differences between men’s and women’s roles in society today?
Berger states that in western works of art, women are depicted in a subservient role. He explains this is representative of western culture. He uses the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden as a prime example. He notes two striking themes in the story. The first is how they become aware of their nakedness, and the second is the blame god places on the woman. This theme has resonated throughout western history and created a subordinate role for women in our culture. It has been present in Judean-Chrsitian-Muslim cultures for thousands of years. Western works of art are a clear depiction of this as they mostly show women in a passive role. They are there to be viewed for male enjoyment and who they truly are has been reduced to an image only there to be sexuallized for the viewers pleasure. I do not believe these depictions influence the ways we think of gender roles today, but they are rather just visual representations of the culture that has been ingrained in society by traditional religions. Traditional religions have marginalized the role of women in relation to men for thousands of years.
- How does Berger describe the significance of the mirror in paintings depicting women? What does this object say about the ways beauty is defined in these paintings? What does Berger say about the depiction of the female gaze in the paintings he discusses? What kinds of more contemporary examples does he relate this to, and what significance does he draw from these connections between older European art and depictions of women today?
Berger uses the mirror to display the hypocrisy in society’s perspective of women. In western art, and society as well, women are considered narcissistic for examining themselves in the mirror. In contrast, men are justified for seeing a woman for her beauty, and expect a woman to use the tools at her disposal to attain beauty for those same men. When she does so, she is then considered a narcissist and therein lies the double standard. Berger also discusses how the females in western art are almost always depicted as looking seductively back at the viewer. They rarely are looking at anything in the painting, but rather their expression is meant only to seduce the viewer. They often have almost the same provocative expressions. He compares a model from what is considered a masterpiece of western art, to “an ill paid model for a photograph in a girly magazine” and finds the extremely similar. I believe we can extrapolate his theory to make conclusions about women and social media today. When viewing pictures on Instagram or Facebook, we quite often see these same or similar expressions. They are intentionally flirtatious and often altered to appear sexier. This ultimately reinforces the same societal gender roles that have existed for years.
Discussion #3
Discussion #3
- One of the main premises in this episode is Berger’s distinction between nakedness and the nude female form as it is traditionally represented in Western art. What are the differences between these things and why are these differences significant? Do they apply to images you have encountered in your experience?
In most of the European oil paintings, women have been objectified for men’s pleasure. According to Berger, “Naked is to be oneself and to be nude is to be seen naked by others and yet not recognized for oneself”. Naked is a state of a woman where she is without her clothes and she is being herself. She is not expecting any spectators whereas a nude female form as traditionally represented in Western art is a form of art where a woman is objectified and she is expected to have an audience. She has to be seen in way where she can inherit pleasure in her male viewers. These differences are significant because in nude forms, their facial expressions are designed specifically to lure her spectators. They are always seen looking at the artist. In my opinion, nakedness is more intimate than nudity. I have come across nude statues of Hindu gods and goddesses. The goddesses pose the same relation as to the women in traditional western art. Their eyes reveal what they are trying to say. Berger states, “They are not naked as they are, but they are naked as you see them”
- According to Berger, how have Western works of art depicted and defined different roles for men and women? According to Berger, what is the significance of this? Do these depictions influence the ways we think of the differences between men’s and women’s roles in society today?
The role of Adam and Eve have influenced the tradition of women playing the passive and submissive role. It has been shown much in the European oil paintings. The God granting men the agent of God has given him the role of spectator in those paintings where women were subjected to nudity to fulfill the appetite of men. Their sexual passion and energy were minimized to show the men’s dominance over women. The ideas behind these painting depict a male dominated society. The conventions built from this culture has laid the foundation for gender discrimination. We can see an existing patriarchal society where women are marginalized despite their potential. The traditional western art of female nude form clearly reveals the misogynistic attitude of men still prevailing in present times.
- How does Berger describe the significance of the mirror in paintings depicting women? What does this object say about the ways beauty is defined in these paintings? What does Berger say about the depiction of the female gaze in the paintings he discusses? What kinds of more contemporary examples does he relate this to, and what significance does he draw from these connections between older European art and depictions of women today?
Since there is always an awareness in a nude female form, Berger mentions “Susana painting” where she sees herself in mirror first to see how she will be judged by men and how she should submit to their demands. The mirror is significant in way how the painter calls the painting a vanity at the end. It was said that she used the mirror to please the men. However, at the end calling the painting a vanity was an insult. She did not use the mirror to please herself, the painter enjoyed painting a nude woman and later he blames it on her that it was for her benefit. The female gaze depicting in many of the early paintings hides the feelings of women, lacks dynamism and freedom. Their expressions are nuanced in way it becomes appealing to the male audiences, but those are not happy eyes, rather an eye that shows awareness of people seeing her naked. There is a resemblance in expression of the females in traditional western art and contemporary nude photographs. Both of them are looking to charm their male audience. Today’s women subject themselves not as an object of submission, but a self-promotion, to draw admiration and popularity for themselves. However, the women in traditional art were a mere object to please men.
DISCUSSION QUESTION #3
1: The difference between nakedness and nude is that nude is a form of art and nakedness is when you are without clothing. These differences are significant because people have been using the wrong terms and in art these are significant words.
2:The western works of art depicted and defined different roles for men and women, men being in charge and women be submissive and slaves for men. The example John Berger uses is Adam and eve, they were used to explain each role men and women play. These depictions influence the way some people think in todays society because some men do believe women are supposed to obey and be slaves for men.
3: Berger describes the significance of the mirror in the paintings depicting women by using the mirror as a symbol to show the women who they are and what people think she looks like . The mirror is used as a way of vanity for the women. In the video Berger explains the depiction of the female gaze in panting’s, women were painted a certain way to society. In these panting’s women were naked and looked at as if they were supposed to be vulnerable to men.
Discussion Question #3
Question 1:
According to Burger, “The difference between nakedness and nudity is that nakedness is to be only without clothes, but nudity is that others see you naked without realizing it, and it is a form of artistic expression in European artistic culture. It was mentioned in the video that the women drawn naked in European paintings drew like this is because this is the way women are judged to be seen.They used this method as a symbol of idealism and expression of the soul. But this art carries a masculine look and a kind of satisfying desire.
Question 2:
As Berger said at the start of the video, men look at women while women look at themselves. Because men are seen as having strength and they are the ones who start doing the deeds and they are the most suitable to make decisions, the view of women is limited to their ability to draw men’s attention to them. Therefore, women were drawn nude in portraits in Europe, such as Venus, to attract male viewers, in order to attract them sexually, not intellectually or artistically. Then the woman is declared if she is of high beauty and attractive physical characteristics. In the case of looking at the hardworking man and the man who provides something to his family. Which led to reducing the role of women in society, and this is exactly the opposite.At the moment, the situation has become somewhat equal. Women have many of their rights.
Question 3:
The woman was drawn in the painting with a mirror in order to show the woman’s charm and as a symbol of vanity and it was called with the same name because of that reason. It was used to reinforce the idea of what a woman should look like and what a man would look like. And Berger also mentioned that European painters at this time often depicted women naked and this reflects their sexual perception of them and in order to attract the largest number of viewers.
Ways of seeing, episode 2
Question number one :
The different between nakedness and nude as Berger discussed, naked is to be oneself and nude is to be seen naked by others and yet not recognized for oneself. this is so important its the key to understanding the European oil paintings special the nude paintings and how they looked at women back then. When a woman is naked is to be herself and she chooses to be naked, but when a woman is nude that is for someone else choice and desire. I saw images for women some are naked and it applies to what Berger mentioned in his video about nudes and nakedness. these images meant to feed men’s sexual needs and desires, so now I understand that who drew these paintings or took these pictures has a purpose to fill out spectators ‘ desire.
Question number two:
The western works of art depicted and defined different roles for men and women, Adam and Eve’s story as told in Genesis the lord God gave men to rule over women and men to be God agents, and since this story, women are to blame for anything and made subservient to men. in most of the nude paintings, we see that women are servants to men’s desire and sexual needs. today’s society is different and it shows respect to women not how it used to be before. now both are to lead in the society and both are active members of our society. before was the men only who lead and women serve men’s sexual needs.
Question number three:
a woman looked at herself in a mirror picture into herself how men see her. Berger explained how the mirror helped women to see herself first and foremost as a sight. a mirror is a subject that allowed women to see how men see them. The mirror becomes a symbol of the vanity of women and the men hypocrisy is to blame for that. Beauty is bound to become competitive and who are not judge beautiful are not beautiful, those who are, are given the prize to be owned and be available to men desire. in paintings or photographs women gaze are similar and that is the expression of responding with charm to men who are looking at them. Who drew the painting had a purpose to make the spectator think the woman in this painting or this image is looking at him and ready to serve him. Berger connects other cultures works for art with the western arts and it seems both have the same meaning when it comes to nude and nakedness and both see naked women is a sexual subjects. Berger interview a couple of women and they all agree that these nude oil paintings are fake and not real. there is no connection between the old European art and how the culture looks at women these days. it’s different because we look different to women in today’s society we see them as equal as men, and they are not men’s sexual slaves anymore.
Discussion Post #3
Question: 1
Nudity is a form of art and it’s a tradition in European Art. Also, Berger indicated that ‘’nude has to be seen as an object in order to become a nude’’. Moreover, nudes in various poses may express basic or difficult emotions such as the pathos. On the other hand, nakedness is the state of being naked. It infers a person who is unprotected or defenseless. Berger pointed out that nakedness is a celebration of active sexual love between two people in another tradition. He develops the difference that ‘‘to be naked is to be oneself and to be nude is to be seen naked by others and yet not recognized for oneself. However, I think the pictures I saw in the video are familiar with nude painting. Such as the portrait of Nell Gwynne as Venus by Sir Peter Lely. Here her nakedness isn’t her very own statement emotions. It’s an indication of her accommodation to other people.
Question: 2
I think everything begins from the hour of Adam and Eve. The man turned into a delegate of God and the lady gets rebuffed. Also, in the European and Western art men and women had different values. A man is the artist of nude painting and women is the object of art. Unfortunately, it was true. However, I think the equality between men and women changed many things in our society. Now many people understand feminism and respect this. Women’s rights gave women hope to rise and women are rising and still doing it. Presently, people don’t think ladies like an item like the European art. Also, women have the knowledge of who they are and what they are capable of which is a good thing.
Question: 3
The mirror becomes a symbol of vanity/self-importance. A woman may see herself in the mirror to see what she looks or how she should look. And it happens because she is influenced by the opinions, logic or cultural perspective what surrounded by us. However, Berger pointed out that mirror meant vanity to a woman. He also stated that “You painted a naked woman because you enjoyed looking at her, put a mirror in her hand and you called the painting “Vanity,” thus morally condemning the woman whose nakedness you had depicted for you own pleasure.” This remains as one of the most impressive proclamations at any point made about the delineation of ladies in society, art, workmanship and in the public arena. I want to add that here male just showed his own pleasure by doing nude painting and calling it the vanity painting. Furthermore, I believe it has changed and nude painting has become less significant now.
Ways of Seeing Episode 2
- One of the main premises in this episode is Berger’s distinction between nakedness and the nude female form as it is traditionally represented in Western art. What are the differences between these things and why are these differences significant? Do they apply to images you have encountered in your experience?
According to Berger’s distinction nakedness and the nude female form as it traditionally represented in western art because women were judged to see how they were looked. Berger discusses the concept of the female nakedness is to be one’s self and to be nude is to be seen naked by others and yet not recognized for one’s self. Berger’s distinction is used to help make the argument that in order for a naked body to become a nude. The nude in European oil painting is usually presented as an ideal subject. It is said to be an expression of the European humanist spirit. I don’t think that they apply to images because such nakedness and the nude images are lined up by their painters for the pleasure of the male.
2. According to Berger, how have Western works of art depicted and defined different roles for men and women? According to Berger, what is the significance of this? Do these depictions influence the ways we think of the differences between men’s and women’s roles in society today?
The western work depicted and defined roles for men and women as a superior and inferior in their presence. Women are treated as abstractions.In European oil painting where women were categorized as a subject to be a nude. Berger further illustrates European paintings of female nudes between the painter’s , owner’s and viewer’s individualism. He added men’s don’t have the same image of themselves or constant reflection or even men’s are not central in the European oil art. Berger believes that this inequality between men and women exists heavily in our society. For instance, the beauty of women from the early age was portrayed through nude paintings emphasizing a woman’s body. Similarly, current advertisements still emphasize a woman’s beauty through their physical attributes. Men’s are depicted to be hard workers and providers for the family. Men’s are associated with strength which automatically makes them superior. For example, older paintings or artwork depicts men in horses or in war. They are depicted with immense strength and are associated with the “provider” role for their family. Current advertisements might not emphasize directly their strength however, they are still shown to be the “provider” of the family. Advertisements usually depict women in the kitchen or laundry while men are frequently seen in car, construction, hardware goods advertisements.
3. How does Berger describe the significance of the mirror in paintings depicting women? What does this object say about the ways beauty is defined in these paintings? What does Berger say about the depiction of the female gaze in the paintings he discusses? What kinds of more contemporary examples does he relate this to, and what significance does he draw from these connections between older European art and depictions of women today?
The mirror painting depicts women to look at herself and it reminds them how they look and how they should look.According to Berger the significance of the mirror in painting is vanity to the women. In the oil European painting Suzanna seems to look at herself in the mirror, picturing herself as men see her. She sees herself first and foremost as a sight which means as a sight for men. Thus the mirror is a symbol of vanity of women yet the male hypocrisy in this blatant. Berger states the culture of privileged Europeans reinforced female nude, which depicted women as passive receptacles for the spectator’s sexual gaze. These did exist for the viewer’s projection of a fantasy. According to the Berger the paintings in film cannot be identified because they are so immensely exaggerated. Many painting shows are idealized and very unreal.
discussion question #3
Q 1. Being naked is simply being without clothes .To be naked is to be oneself whereas nakedness is created in the mind of eye of beholder.BUt Nude is form of an art.Nude means to be seen naked by other and yet not recognize for one self.Nude has to been seen by an object in order to be nude.In European art ,nakedness is seight for those who addresses and is not taken as granted.The European nude art implies an awareness of being seen by the spectetor. Nude art are not naked as they are, they are naked as you see them. Nakedness reveals itself whereas Nudity is placed on display. Not necessarily the image but when in hospital for any body checkup ,you don’t feel nude.
Q2.Men are portrayed as strong ,fit ,dominant characters whereas women appear more polished because they ought to appeal to men. A European oil painting of a nude does not includes a spectator. But paintings of nudes assume the spectator to be a clothed man, the painting created for his enjoyment. Berger illustrates this point through the painting Venus, Cupid, Folly, and Time . The painter arranges the woman’s body so the male spectator can look at her. The composition is designed to appeal to his sexuality, not her own.As Berger European oil painters were usually men and their subjects were usually women. Women were just made to be looked at, or “surveyed” .Berger shows a picture of multiple female nudes,[The Oreads (wood nymphs)] by French painter William-Adolphe Bouguereau , as the height of “this male flattery” referring men could look at the women and be reassured of their masculinity.Art and life affect one another.The presentation of women in art might affect the way women behave and are treated in society.
Q3.A mirror in a painting was to allow woman as treating herself a sight thus having her own spectator as herself. But the painting with mirror and beauty tools are accused to exhibit women sexulaity and vanity . Mirror symbolized as a vanity of women therefore depicted women the pleasure.Woman dependent on the gaze of others for her identity’s as she looks out of the picture.In modern art the category of the nude has become less important.
