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John Berger’s Ways of Seeing Episode 2

John Berger believes that the difference in nakedness and nudity lies in whether or not the subject is aware they are being seen. In a painting depicting the story of Adam and Eve, the pair eat the forbidden fruit and realize they are naked. Upon this realization, they hide from God out of shame for being bare. They go on to use leaves to cover themselves up from each other’s gaze, as well as that of the viewer. The moment Adam and Eve become aware of their nakedness, they become Berger’s definition of nude. They see each other differently, as something to be seen, and cover up as a result. I agree with Berger’s interpretation of these terms, being naked is to be free, while being nude is to be under a magnifying glass.

The Western works of art depicted in the second episode of Ways of Seeing generally show women in a submissive role to men. In the painting sent by the Grand Duke of Florence to the King of France, Venus is having an intimate moment with Cupid. Her body, however, is not facing him. She is facing forward, on full display for the King rather than Cupid himself. She is there solely for him to look at. This idea’s influence has lived hundreds of years beyond this painting. Until around the 1960’s the ideal woman in society was a housewife who was seen and not heard. In American Psycho, a movie set in the late 80’s, Patrick Bateman tells his assistant not to wear pants to work anymore. He tells her he likes heels, a subtle order for her to begin wearing those shoes as well. Bateman is meant to depict the average male working on Wall Street, signifying that the “seen not heard” mentality was still prevalent among the upper class in the 80s, and worth talking about when the movie was made in the year 2000.

The significance of the mirror in the paintings Berger talks about has been my favorite part of this special. He talks about how women look in the mirror and see a sight to be looked at rather than just themselves. Male artists paint a nude woman, looking at themselves in a mirror. This image of a woman with a mirror becomes a symbol of vanity. These men judge the women for worrying so much about how they look, while painting them for their own viewing pleasure. He relates the facial expressions of the women in the old European paintings to the ones of women in pornographic magazines. They both give the capturer a face they believe will be alluring for the man who views the final product. I particularly enjoyed the comment the women in the closing discussion made about intentionally seeing yourself in the mirror as opposed to catching a glimpse by chance. She says that when you look with intention, you go to the mirror in a pose, seeing yourself with a projected image in mind. However, when you look without intention you “see yourself as you are,” outside of the image you are trying to maintain. Whenever I see a reflection of myself in a glass storefront, I feel a small shock at my own face. I felt that this woman captured and explained that feeling very well.

Discussion Post #3

  1. In this episode, Berger’s distinction between nakedness and the nude female form is viewed as naked being oneself. Comfortable in one’s body without judgement. While nude is being physically and personally exposed. Not seen as your true self. This is significant because when women are naked they feel comfortable in their personal body. However, when women are nude they have opened themself for people to opinion and judge them. They leave themself vulnerable. In my opinion, naked and nude are the same because the body of any individual is unique. Only an individual should see themselves. Otherwise, they expose themselves for people to critique them.

  2. Western works of art illustrated and defined the different roles for men and women by showing how men saw nude as sexual and desirable. One the other hand, when women are naked they feel like they’re in their own body. She values her body. The significance of this, according to Berger nude and naked are the same because in art it is not sexuality. Yes, this has influenced society today because men and women think, to be naked or nude are the same and most people feel free to show their body without hesitation or shame.
  3. Berger describes the significance of the mirror as a reminder of how women should like and a judgement on how it reflected back from a “real man”. The mirror is a symbol of the pure beauty of a woman. It reflects the obvious of what they already know. However, men are hypocrites, they look at painting with obvious sexual desires. Berger explains how the female gaze in paintings are admired by the spectator. Their facial expressions are meant to be seen by the viewer. They express their feelings and thoughts through their eyes. He gave many contemporary examples referring to European oil painting like the one of Cupid and Venus. He was kissing her but her body was positioned in the view point for the spectator to admire. She wasn’t concerned with Cupid. The connection he draws between European art and women today is that the old painting represents an exaggeration of what women look like. Painters modify women to please men viewers. If a photograph of a woman was taken it would show its true naturality and not a fixed look. 

discussion question #3

1. Berger argues that being naked is to be oneself without clothes, to be nude is to be seen naked by others this is considered an artistic representation; these differences are significant because being nude is a form of art, when you are nude you are posing for others to see you, but when you are naked you don’t expect someone is seeing you, you are with yourself without any shame so it’s awkward if someone would. I think almost every time in a painting you can identify if the artist painted someone posing (nude) or if the artist had the intention to paint someone naked, this can be recognized in the attitudes the body takes when is posing, or the sensation of vulnerability the painting conveys when someone is painted naked.

2.

Since the history of Adan and Eva, women were associated with sinfulness and desire. According to Berger, western works of art have defined women as the object to see and judge, and men seen superior and stronger than woman; the nudes being depicted for men consumption only. These paintings were like a beauty contest, and the prize of the winner was to be owned, this puts beauty as a synonym of money. Sometimes in the picture the woman was with a men lover, but she does not reply to his sexuality, because she is arranged for the spectator. Women in the European oil paintings have to be shown like they don’t have any interest as Berger said “they have to feed an appetite not to have any of their own” this is one clear example of how these depictions influenced the sexual role of the woman in society because for a long time the woman was not supposed to have any desire, it was not a characteristic of a woman, while for the men was normal to have sometimes a violent appetite towards women.

3. Berger argues that men put a mirror in a woman’s hand and that is a sign of vanity when they paint that woman for their own pleasure, all these paintings infer that a woman’s beauty is defined by men. These conventions are created to fulfill the expectations of the male. The female gaze is staring at the viewer, making him feel as he owns her gaze. Today, in magazines we can see how female gaze is also towards the viewer, looking at him looking at her, kind of hypnotizing him. idealizing women have been systematically affecting women’s life for a long time for example that woman have to be coy and women their bodies have to be curvy.

DQ #3

Reading/Viewing Questions

John Berger’s Ways of Seeing Episode 2 

After you watch episode 2 of Ways of Seeing (or even while you are watching it), provide short answers to the questions below.

1. One of the main premises in this episode is Berger’s distinction between nakedness and the nude female form as it is traditionally represented in Western art. What are the differences between these things and why are these differences significant? Do they apply to images you have encountered in your experience

-Berger stated that nude in European painting is a form of art, nude implies a weakness seen as an art form. They stated,” they’re not naked as they are, naked as you see them”. In today’s world, nude painting can be very different in some categories because it’s basically looking at yourself in the mirror that reflects your beauty but it reflects on the judgment you get because in this generation nude painting can be looked differently.

2. According to Berger, how have Western works of art depicted and defined different roles for men and women? According to Berger, what is the significance of this? Do these depictions influence the ways we think of the differences between men’s and women’s roles in society today? 

– In the western work of art, they stated women nude painting can be looked at by men who judge them because they look at them as an object. They tend to use their hand and wear fig leaves to make modest gestures with their hands. Their shame is not so much in relation to one another but they feel shame because of the view of the way the spectator looks at them. In today’s society its really different because we treat women and men equally in opportunity, but some people point of view they think men can do more than women but I’m really against that thought because women and men are both equally strong.

3. How does Berger describe the significance of the mirror in paintings depicting women? What does this object say about the ways beauty is defined in these paintings? What does Berger say about the depiction of the female gaze in the paintings he discusses? What kinds of more contemporary examples does he relate this to, and what significance does he draw from these connections between older European art and depictions of women today?

– Berger describes the mirror painting as a men desire to look at to satisfy their pleasure, they tend to look at the nude painting as an original beauty but in the discussion that Berger has with the women, they stated that oil painting shows women in an unreal way because of how the painting is immensely exaggerated on how their gesture looks.

Discussion Question #2

Viewing Questions

John Berger’s Ways of Seeing Episode 1

After you watch episode 1 of Ways of Seeing (or even while you are watching it), provide short answers to the questions below. 

  1.  One of the first points John Berger makes is that the act of seeing something is not as objective as we might at first think. Instead, he argues that what we see is conditioned by habits and conventions. What does Berger mean when he says that the process of seeing is not “natural,” that it is shaped by habits and conventions? What kinds of habits and conventions shape the ways we see and how do they do this? Why is this significant when we think about what artworks like paintings mean for viewers?
  • Berger means that’s we usually tent to look at art in think that everything that’s observing its natural, but our eyes can’t capture everything at one time, For example Like a Camera it can only capture a certain role/moment at a time. Our eye is the main to analyze something them send a note/message to our brain that keeps a note about an object we look at or even a movie that we tent to remember what happened after watching it. The artwork was really important in present and the past because like for example in religion they don’t have a camera at that time so they use artwork to spread and tell the stories that’s why we tend to know what happens after so many years because of artwork that can’t disappear.

2. According to Berger, how has the camera changed our senses of perception? How has this device changed our engagement with works of art? Conversely, Berger describes the experience of being in the presence of an authentic artwork–at a museum, for instance–in terms of “stillness” and “silence.” What does he mean by this? According to Berger, why is seeing an artwork in a museum different from seeing it on a screen or in a book?

  •  According to what Berger stated in the video painting and eye can only be analyzed at a time. But the camera can recreate the artwork or even customize it on your preference and can be able to show an artwork all over the work by the camera image. Like for example, he stated that the camera can reproduce the image that the camera capture such as rare act work that people can only visualize unperson. Seeing an original artwork in person can be more detailed because taking a picture and analyzing the picture won’t do justice, In order to experience the workmanship of a painting it has to be analyzed unperson to get the feeling on what the artist might want to express.

3. What does Berger mean when he describes reproductions of paintings becoming a “form of information?” Paraphrase what he means by his idea of “talking with reproductions.” What is the significance of this?

  • Berger means that reproduction of artwork destroys the original meaning of the painting for example in the video he stated that “National Gallery sells more reproduction of this Leonardo cartoon than of any other picture”, meaning people Tent to buy replica so they can hang it on their room that destroys the original meaning and the moment people admire looking at the painting unperson rather then getting a replica copy.

Discussion Question #3

Part 1.  According Berger, in episode 2 of Ways of Seeing, the main distinction between nakedness and the the nude female form as represented in traditional Western art is that being naked is to be oneself, and the nude, is to be seen naked by others and yet not be recognized for oneself.  A nude, he adds, has to be seen as an object, and in this object the female(s) are not seen naked as they are, but instead naked as you, the observer, see them.  These differences are significant because in the nudes the nakedness is a sight for those who are dressed.  And these differences could also be seen today in nude magazines such as Playboy.  The pictures in these magazines are catered to the sexual desires of the mainly male observers with the seductive and unnatural poses.

Part 2.  According to Berger, these Western works have often depicted and defined men as being dominant and women being subservient and the lesser of the two sexes.  The Creation paintings even depicted women as being guilty for the first sin and subsequently making God rule that women were to obey men.  As a result of this many of these paintings depicted women as always trying to please men with a sort of guilty look on their faces.  And yes these depictions still influence, although a lot less, the roles of men and women in society today.

Part 3.  In the nudes of Western art the mirror became a symbol for vanity of women, picturing herself how men see her.  She sees herself mainly as a sight, which means a sight for men.  The mirror also indicates how beauty was judged in those paintings, in a competitive way.  The prettiest, as seen by men, was illustrated effectively in the painting, The Judgement of Paris, as this painting depicted a beauty contest.  He also discusses the significance of the female gaze in these paintings.  The gaze, whether she is looking at a mirror or out to the audience, is always to see what someone else is thinking of her, mainly men, and is she pleasurable to them.  These same types of gazes and expressions, he adds, can be seen in modern day photographs, like from a female magazine.   These expressions are submissive with a calculating charm to the man she knows is looking at her.  This example clearly shows that even today, women are still looked upon as objects of beauty rather than just themselves.

Discussion #3

1.According to John Berger’s “Ways of seeing,” nakedness and nude female form seem to have many similarities, but they have opposite concepts. Both words mean not to have clothes on, but nude is about a posed painting, it is intentional, and nude female form has the purpose to be in presence of a male viewer. However, to be naked is to be oneself, the subject is focused on her own life and is looking away from the viewer. When we access Instagram and other social media, we can see nude female images, and those are continuously changing viewer’s perception about how women’s ideal beauty. 

2.Western works of art represent male nudity as dominance, ideal body form, male power, and women nudity as sexuality, an object of the pleasure. Berger by saying “Men act, and women appear,” highlights the social hierarchy and gender inequality. Nowadays, these work arts, and the way how the male and female are portrayed, and their role in the society centuries ago influenced women to fight for their rights and equality of sexes, and it influenced men to give them those rights.

3.Mirror behind the women is another factor that determines that the painting is of nudity. It symbolizes self-admiration and self-love. Woman has pride in her own appearance, looking into the mirror she is her own object of the pleasure and admiration as she is for the male viewer. The woman’s gaze shows the viewer that she is aware of being viewed, inviting him in. Nowadays, selfie pictures are an example of woman’s vanity, inspired from older European art.

Discussion question 3

  • Nakedness means just to take off the clothes and being comfortable in your own skin. Nude means being watched and objectify by others. There are many products nowadays that use women’s nakedness and objectify them to attract male customers.

 

  • In the most western works of art where women are naked, men have clothes on. which shows,  by wearing clothes men are superior and women are there only to pleasure men and the people who are looking at her. These art has influenced the society for long time.  Many people still believe  women are born to pleasure men and give birth. People still thinks it’s alright to objectify women.

 

  • In the work of art men sees women naked  because that is how they want to see women. Women sees themselves in the mirror naked as sight of how man sees them. They judge themselves by the way they look or not look. The female gaze in painting are direct to the person looking at her outside, the person who is looking and judging her beauty. He use modern days magazine model picture these painting which has the same gaze and expression as the older European   In both place the women looking at person who is judging and objectifying them.

Discussion questions #3

Question #1

The importance of the difference is about the perception of the nudity of the pictured women. Are we looking at them as at the sexual objects or the objects to be judged? Or, on the contrary, are we looking at naked women as at them, just for their simple being, without any male interference or interest and judgment? In my opinion, these differences apply to images of today’s western society in a very similar way as back then. Ladies are in an all-source of media often presented as an object, in position to try to catch the attention by the visual perception by looking submissive, available, and ready.

Question #2

The role of the women depicted as a beautiful thing to look at, whose biggest interest is to be pretty for the men. Women were just sexual objects, which were even more attractive if they were submissive without their own opinion, quietly following the men’s demands. The position of women in modern society is more and more equal to the position of men, but we can still see many situations nowadays where are the same old rules still applied. For instance, magazines or photos on social media are presenting women’s nudity without any artistic relevance, or intellectual overlap. Even some very intelligent, successful women still believe that they are not fully accepted by society without positive judgment of their physical beauty by men.

Question #3

The beauty of women was ranked by interest and judgment of men’s enjoyment. Women at the paintings were looking at themselves in the mirror, thinking about how they look and how they are looking at by men. Mirror was also used as a symbol of the vanity of women. The hypocrisy of the men was hidden behind the moral condemn of the women for their vanity in order just to look at the naked women’s body. We can see a kind of parallel between the women naked bodies pictured in old paintings and photos of naked women in every other magazine today. Women are often seeing as a sexual object without any other interest than to be pretty and accepted by men.

 

Discussion #3

1. The naked painting of western art shows us that women were judged by their appearances. Jordan Bernier discusses that “nakedness is to be without disguise to be on display is to have the surface of one own skin the hair of one own body turn into a disguise which cannot be discarded”. He is informing us that nakedness does not care it will show you its natural form

2. According to Jordan Bernier, it shows us that western art depicts the difference between men and women and their values in one of the artworks called painting Susanna and the elders show us how the men are depicted on spying on the naked women and most of the picture shows us that the women are holding the mirror. This painting shows us the wants of men to see naked women and the woman in the painting sees herself in the mirror to see how men see her.

3.  John Berger shows us that men and women are shown in a different light in one of the artworks called judgment of Paris it shows us a group of naked women being judge by men and the pretty ones will get an apple. This art shows us in our modern-day life that beauty will always be competitive.