Category Archives: Discussion question #2

Discussion #2

1.Berger by saying that process of seeing is not “natural” and it is shaped by habits and conventions, he means that human’s vision works instantly. First, the person receives the information through his vision, then he tries to explain it with words, influenced by his imagination, knowledge, and life experience. If there is a group of people looking at one painting, then, there will be a variety of “ways of seeing,” everyone will have his own visualization and description of that artwork. People can share with each other their experience of interpreting a panting. 

2.An image is someone’s way of seeing. The camera is a device which helps the photographer to record an image captured by his vision at that moment. Nowadays, we can see the copy of any famous painting on our screen devices. However, according to Berger, when a camera is photographing a painting, it destroys the painting uniqueness. Seeing an artwork in a museum is a unique experience, the viewer has the freedom to observe the details, to feel the painting’s aura, to reflect about what he sees. 

3.According to Berger, the reproductions of paintings becoming a “form of information”, means that copies can distort the original meaning of the painting and they can make arguments. Those copies can be wrongly used in political propaganda and commercials. However, reproductions of paintings, seen on tv, newspapers, and documentary videos can attract and teach people about art and how to look at, and where to improve the knowledge about art. 

ways of seeing

  1. One of the first points John Berger makes is that the act of seeing something is not as objective as we might at first think. Instead, he argues that what we see is conditioned by habits and conventions. What does Berger mean when he says that the process of seeing is not “natural,” that it is shaped by habits and conventions? What kinds of habits and conventions shape the ways we see and how do they do this? Why is this significant when we think about what artworks like paintings mean for viewers?

 

Because everyone grows up in a different living environment, it can make us see things in different ways and express them differently. Cultural background and the living background will affect our ideas. Works of art mean that the audience can objectively feel the artist’s life or the feelings they want to express, and can also be used to inherit and teach us some experiences and lessons

 

  1. According to Berger, how has the camera changed our senses of perception? How has this device changed our engagement with works of art? Conversely, Berger describes the experience of being in the presence of an authentic artwork–at a museum, for instance–in terms of “stillness” and “silence.” What does he mean by this? According to Berger, why is seeing an artwork in a museum different from seeing it on a screen or in a book?

 

The appearance of the camera has changed our perception because the camera can copy the painting so that everyone can see it, but the camera can’t copy all the details. Some pictures can only show a part of the painting. Now we can easily watch the painting at any place and time. So we also reduce the number of exhibitions and museums. Because it’s very convenient to see on the mobile phone Any painting you want to see. However, the details and emotions that can only be found in the original works cannot be transmitted through the copied pictures

 

  1. What does Berger mean when he describes reproductions of paintings becoming a “form of information?” Paraphrase what he means by his idea of “talking with reproductions.” What is the significance of this?

 

I think the form of information is an important way to spread and teach the people knowledge. But it’s not an art, and people can’t learn or feel more real things from the screen.

 

Discussion questions #2

Question#1:

In “Ways of Seeing Episode 1” , Berger says that the process of seeing is not natural , that it’s shaped by habits and conventions. I suppose what he means is that seeing may be  just a simple action completed by our eyes , but how we see something is definitely much more complex than the action seeing . Habits and conventions play important roles in deciding how we see something.That’s also the reason why Berger uses the term “ process of seeing” instead of seeing.I believe that circumstance and the mode of thinking will shape the ways we see.Everybody has its own feeling even on the same artwork, it’s based on how we think . As for the circumstance, if we see a painting in a museum , we will stop in front of it and appreciate it , which is an ordinary behavior . But if we see the same painting hung on a street wall, we probably won’t even care about what’s the content of  painting ,but wondering why it’s hung on here . It’s significant that people have the ability to appreciate artworks in different ways because we can keep the diversity of artwork creation.

 

 

Question#2:

Before camera was invented ,people could only go to particular locations to see something they wanted to see.After camera emerged,everything changed.We can see any artwork from all over the world in forms of image , video and paper.We no longer need to spend lots of time and money to travel to particular places in order to see the artworks.However ,every coin has two sides.Sometimes artwork like painting can be easily manipulated , the producer can add sounds , words and movement in the painting that will lead the original meaning of the painting totally changed.It’s what Berger says in the video that paintings are usually silence and stillness , they can be manipulated by people if we want.If we have opportunity to appreciate an artwork in museum ,we can appreciate the authentic artwork and probably would feel and understand its original meaning ,which we might can’t achieve if we see it on a screen or in a book.

 

 

Question#3:

What  Berger means when he describes reproductions of painting becoming a “form of information” is that  people can manipulate paintings to convey messages through social media or other forms to public.Literally, reproductions of painting are not only art ,but also media resources nowadays. People can get fun from those reproductions of painting , companies can create fascinating advertisements by the reproductions of painting.The reproduction of paintings makes our world more interesting.

 

 

 

Ways of seeing, ep 1

 

John Berger argues that the process of seeing is not as natural as we tend to believe, all the images we see are arranged by the artists or even for the context in which we see them, he gives the example of perspective when the eye feels the center of what you’re looking at. What you see it’s always influenced by the characteristics of the environment (music, place, things around it) in which you are, and by our background (culture, level of education, experiences); we may not realize it but that can change for complete how we see a painting, for example a kid will not see a painting in the same way an adult see it, the kid might point at physical details of the painting while the adult might try to analyze the painting.

With the invention of the camera the human eye stopped being the only center of the visual world, the paintings that used to be in just one place could be now available for anyone across the world, anytime. People no longer have to go to specific places museums, chapels­) to see artworks. He gives the example of when you are in a church, the paintings are part of the building, they were designed for the building, so ‘everything around the image is part of its meaning’, the things around it confirms its meaning; however, when you’re seeing this images in the commodity of your home, surrounded by things you see every day they lost symbolism. According to Berger the most important thing about paintings is that are silent and still, I think he meant that when you go to a place that is focus in artworks that place is set in a way that you could connect with the painting and try to see beyond it. Seeing a painting on a screen could change radically its meaning because we can do different things to alter the image like zooming in on a part of the painting that is supposed to be seen whole, add some music, etc.

Images have become a form of information because they are transmittable, like the news; then he says that the faces of paintings become messages (message being an element of information) and many people try to understand the expressions on these faces. Berger emphasizes that ‘talking with reproductions’ has its pros and cons, the artwork stops being unique to have a lot of meanings based on the mean of communication in which it is put, but also this information about paintings could attract many people who like art to learn more, basically nowadays art is at everyone’s hand.

Ways of seeing

  1. One of the first points John Berger makes is that the act of seeing something is not as objective as we might at first think. Instead, he argues that what we see is conditioned by habits and conventions. What does Berger mean when he says that the process of seeing is not “natural,” that it is shaped by habits and conventions? What kinds of habits and conventions shape the ways we see and how do they do this? Why is this significant when we think about what artworks like paintings mean for viewers?        

John Berger states “ the act of seeing something is not as objective as we might at first think”. He explains that what we see is conditioned by habits and conventions because we are conditioned to see the world in a different perspective through photography and modern technology. We tend to believe a large part of seeing depends upon habit and conventions. All the paintings of the tradition used the convention of perspective which is unique because our perspective centers everything on the eyes of the beholders. Our habits and conventions go beyond just what the eye sees at the moment. He further explained how cameras changed everything and the uses of it changes the concept of art. The uses of cameras help to see a mile away and how the use of cameras leads towards the creation of a fresh perception of the art. He added that with the invention of the camera we can view art everywhere outside of its intended environment as a part of building, museum, church and so on .However, in a modern perspective we are conditioned to see but as we lose its original purpose .

2.  According to Berger, how has the camera changed our senses of perception? How has this device changed our engagement with works of art? Conversely, Berger describes the experience of being in the presence of an authentic artwork–at a museum, for instance–in terms of “stillness” and “silence.” What does he mean by this? According to Berger, why is seeing an artwork in a museum different from seeing it on a screen or in a book?

According to Berger, cameras have completely changed our sense of perception because it helps to see such icons in the home. The images come to you through an image of painting which travels. He explained  how the images he standing  in the studio travel and  and appears on screen the meaning of a painting no longer reside in its unique painted surface which it is only possible to see in one place at one time its meaning or a large part of its has become transmittable. Further he illustrates camera work of art transmittable has multiplied its possible meaning and destroyed its unique original meaning. Berger experience of being in the presence of an authentic art–at a museum, for instance–in term of “stillness” and “silence” is pureness because these things are important things in paintings. Painting as a whole is simultaneous. It  is silent and still because their meaning in no longer attached to them but has become transmittable paintings lend themselves to easy manipulation.Painting themselves in the images is silent still. On the television  or in a screen are never still and in a sense the pages of a book are never still but it demonstrates the silence and the stillness of a painting can be very striking. 

3.  What does Berger mean when he describes reproductions of paintings becoming a “form of information?” Paraphrase what he means by his idea of “talking with reproductions.” What is the significance of this?

According to the Berger when paintings have reproduced they become a form of information which is being continually transmitted  and so there they have to hold their own against all the other information which is jostling around them to appear on the same page or the same screen. Reproduction makes the meaning of work of art ambiguous. He states reproduction of work of art can be used by anybody for their own purpose and  image can be used like words. It is significant because this is not as negative as it necessarily sounds. Reproduction makes it easier to connect our experience of art directly with other experiences.

Ways of Seeing

Question 1

John Berger- “Ways of Seeing” published in 1972 and based on BBC television program.  Berger points out what is involved in seeing, and how the way we see things is determined by what we know. The process of seeing painting or seeing anything else. It is less spontaneous and natural than we tend to believe. Berger touches on the idea that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this makes the eye the center of the visible world. A large part of seeing is based on habit and convention. Today we see the art of the past as nobody saw it before. We perceive it in a different way. This difference can be illustrated in terms of what was thought of as perspective. Painting of the tradition used the convention of perspective. The convention of perspective is unique to European art and which was first established in early Renaissance. The conventions called those appearances reality. Perspective makes the single eye the center of the visible world. According to the convention of perspective there is no visual reciprocity. The painting on the wall like a human eye, can only be in one place at one time. Perspective makes the single eye the center of the visible world. One category of European oil painting women was the principle. Ever recurring subject. That category is the nude. In the nudes of European painting we can discover some of the criteria and conventions by which women have been seen and judged as sights. The modern interrogation of centuries old oil paintings was a milestone in cultural theory. He argues that the systemic objectification of women in visual art.

 

Question 2

 

According to Berger “Ways in Seeing” the invention of the camera changed perception of the world- it changed not only what we see but how we see it. The camera demonstrated that there was no center. The invention of cameras changed the way men saw. Berger touches on the idea that the human eye could only be in one place at a time. The images come to us, this meaning, like the news of an event. You do not go to them. People would travel to the image. The camera made it possible that appearances could travel across the world. The painting can only be in one place at one time, the camera reproduces it. He describes original paintings are unique, they look different on television screens . When the camera reproduces a painting change. Visit the national gallery and look at the original painting. It is not fake, it is authentic. We should feel this authenticity. For example, The Virgin of the Rocks by Leonardo DA Vince: it is authentic and therefore it is beautiful. The most important thing about painting is that their image does not speak, they are silent, he claims. Berger argues that I cannot demonstrate that the lines on your screen are never still, and in a sense, the pages of the book are never still. He says, Occasionally, this uninterrupted silence and the stillness of a painting can be very striking.

 

Question 3

 

Berger’s states that painting can become a form of information. Berger emphasized reproduction makes the meaning of works of art ambiguous. This is not negative, it is necessary. The production of works of art can be used by anybody for their own purposes. The art book depends upon reproductions. For instance, children or adults pin up reproductions alongside snapshots. The works of art are reproducible, theoretically be used by anybody in art books, magazines, films or within gift frames in living rooms. The means of reproduction are used politically and commercially to disguise or deny what their existence makes possible.

Discussion Question #2

  1. John Berger argues that the way we see art will be different for the way other people might look at it, but when we add convention it can change other people’s ways of looking at the artwork it can lead to adding more questions than answers the second guess of what they once say adding more to it. This is important for many reasons as it can help you find a different message that a person might see in the art which will lead to agreeing and disagreeing with what you see, sometimes you second guess yourself on what you see in the art, however you leave with more questions than answer there are many ways to understand an artwork but none of them are incorrect.
  2. John Berger is informing us of the difference in the way we see art from looking at the television screen to the way we see an art from the museum and from a book. The difference is that the television screen gives you a few minutes to ponder and see the art it gives you little time to think about what you see then it throws you away to a commercial which leads you to lose your train of thought. When you are in a museum or in a book you have time to look over the painting as long as you want, and nothing is interrupting you from giving you an idea of what the painting is giving to you.
  3. The reason why John Berger describes the reproductions of the painting is that the art can lose its artistic value and its meaning to the people who are looking at the art from their home instead of looking at it in the original painting in the museum.

Ways of Seeing

Our brain helps us perceive the world around us. In the same way, our eyes are a kind of corridor connecting our brain with the outside world. However, according to the video The Way of Vision, episode 1, Berger claims that many factors influence the perception of what we see.

Art is important for each of us because it helps us to see and feel the time in which the work was created. In any case, each of us sees the same picture in different ways, and this, as the author states, may depend on different personal views, culture, gender, or external influences.

According to Berger, with the advent of the camera, many works of art have become available in any format, anywhere and for various purposes. Also, our perceptions of works of art exhibited in museums differ from their reproductions published in books or broadcast on screens. Through the approach of the camera to various places of the whole image, we can see a lot of small details bearing a completely different meaning. Berger says reproductions are the form of information. Moreover, art as a whole can be considered as documented moments of individual events of different eras. At the same time, creating a work, the artist experiences a range of emotions that he shares with us through artworks.

Berger also states that paintings can talk to the viewer and can also be still, creating silence. There are paintings that show silence, but when interacting with different sounds, the canvas begins to radiate a sound mood, conveying a completely different picture to the viewer. I believe that this changing perspective of the visibility and perception of art is directly related to our brain. Therefore, thanks to our consciousness, we can see and create the beauty of art.

The electric eye

question number one :

The process of seeing is not natural! John Berger explained that everything we see is a reflection of our habits and conventions, it could be religious or historical or it could be what we learned from our cultures. perspective centers everything on the eye of the beholder so, what we see in on our reality is the appearance that travels into the eye. the paintings are something from our life and by looking at them we can understand if they relate to religious, historical, landscape, or a picture of our culture. For instance, John Berger mentioned an icon that is holy for Christians so it is easy for them to understand it, but it is hard for me as a Muslim to figure out what is this icon is about because I am from a different religion and a different culture.

question number two:

The human eye can be in one place at a time. The camera changed not only what we see but how we see it, it made us see things that people never imagined to see. Its the electronic eye the camera, with the camera we don’t need to travel to see arts, actually it made arts travel to us. Berger explained the most important thing about paintings themselves is their images are silent, and still. when you look at any painting still and silent that’s is a striking and breathtaking moment, and you can think about the reason behind why the painter drew this painting. with the camera, things changed and the meaning of the paintings is changed. with a camera, they can manipulate paintings by adding sounds and movement to them so the meaning change if you add opera sound, an argument sound, or zooming in on part of the painting and leave the rest of it and by doing this the whole meaning of a painting will change completely.

 

question number three:

Berger describes the reproduction of paintings become a ” form of information” by explaining that using a painting to describe an action, news, or advertising will change the whole meaning of the painting. the painting will have the meaning of what we see beside it or what comes after it, or what purpose it been used for. this is the reproduction of the meaning of any painting we make new meaning for any painting to serve our new purpose.

Discussion Post #2

Question: 1

Berger says that the process of seeing is not “natural,” that it is shaped by habits and conventions. The reason is our daily activities/lifestyle shape our thinking/mind and perspective centers everything. A painting can be seen in different meaning for different age, such as between an adult and a child. A child and an adult have different life experiences. So, an adult can see painting in more detail than a child and it’s not natural. However, Berger described a point of view as reality shaped from the existence of a structure by our eye. Therefore, eye shows the world to us and impact on the tendency of our improvement. Then our tendency what reads the meaning of art.

Question: 2

The creation of the camera changed everything. Now paintings travel to us for the camera. They use for different purposes such as the faces of the paintings use for specific messages, also use to purchase the original ones which are the reproduction unfortunately. I want to add that paintings are everywhere and people don’t get the original vibes what they see in front of an original painting. As a result, original paintings lost their original meaning. Berger pointed out that an original painting can only be seen in one place at a time. Now we can see any painting at any place in different situations. So it just changed our thought what we should see in a museum with stillness and silence. With stillness and silence, we can focus our mind to understand the meaning of the painting. On the hand, paintings in books and magazines has different perspective. Here paintings are used for delivering specific information or message. The reason is now the movement of the camera changed the meaning of a painting completely such as “an allegorical figure becomes a pretty girl” what the video showed.

Question: 3

Berger indicated that the paintings become a form of information. Now its use for spreading specific information. I think that camera divided a painting into many forms. Such as the faces of a painting use for specific messages. Paintings are being replicated by the camera or works of art are being repeated by the camera. The main reason is to sell or use/utilize the paintings based on the interest of what human look for. The copies of paintings use for various information or message what clearly re-forming our experiences. As a result, the first and original significance of an artistic creation is completely lost and gone.